this post was submitted on 04 Jun 2025
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[โ€“] Diva@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 days ago (4 children)

I understand, the point in response was that non-authoritatian states don't and haven't existed. The compass portrays a field that is equal, but in reality only the top half is anything but idealism, historically speaking.

a classless stateless society is what I would prefer. That's something we can conceive of, but getting there is another issue. Revolutions tend to be pretty authoritarian no matter how you slice it.

[โ€“] irelephant@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 day ago (3 children)

I should have used the word society instead of state.

[โ€“] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

What do you mean by "authoritarian" vs "libertarian," then? In which respect, and for which class of society? Capitalism is authoritarian for the working class, and Socialism is authoritarian for the bourgeoisie, but Capitalism is libertarian for the bourgeoisie and Socialism is libertarian for the working class. That's my point, really, terms like "authoritarian" vs "libertarian" don't really describe anything at a useful level.

For example, when comparing Anarchists with Marxists, Anarchists take the stance that horizontalism is necessary, while Marxists see centralization as a necessity. However, this centralization in Marxist Socialism means each worker has more of a say across society, while workers in Anarchist society have more say over a smaller area. That also is ignoring that Marxists typically break things up into local, regional, national, and international levels. These aren't "libertarian" vs "authoritarian" decisions, but decisions about how power should be structured, not where along a scale they reside.

The Political Compass, really, is just political astrology. People like to be sorted based on quizzes, that's it. There's no real political theory behind it. Whenever I take the test, I land solidly lib and max left, but I'm a Marxist-Leninist and support AES. It will then say those same systems I support are max authleft or somewhere up there. It's all a vibe check made by liberals.

[โ€“] irelephant@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

My original point was that leftism isn't linear, and that marxism-leninism and anarchism are quite different.

[โ€“] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 23 hours ago

Sure, that's a point I agree with, but that wasn't how you made that point, which is what I disagreed with.