this post was submitted on 22 Dec 2023
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[–] u_tamtam@programming.dev -1 points 9 months ago (53 children)

Yup, though you are comparing 19th century tech to cutting edge tech: the PRC isn't going to crack EUV lithography on its own any time soon

[–] Tankiedesantski@hexbear.net 36 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (46 children)
  • China can't make modern electronics

  • Okay they can make modern electronics but they'll never design their own domestic brands

  • Okay they made their domestic brands but they'll never achieve market dominance

  • Okay their domestic brands dominate their own market but they'll never see export success

  • Okay they're seeing export success in the EU, India, SEA, and the Middle East, but they'll never make their own RAM or set teleco standards

  • Okay they made their own RAM and helped define the standard for 5G, but they'll never make their own processors.

  • Okay they made their own processors but they'll never make anything smaller than 10nm

  • Okay they made a 10mn chip but they'll never make a 7nm chip

  • Okay they made a 7nm chip but they'll never make a 5nm chip

  • Okay they made a 5nm chip but they'll never crack DUV

  • Okay they cracked DUV but they'll never crack EUV <------ YOU ARE COPING HERE

  • Okay they cracked EUV but they'll never make a 4nm chip

  • Okay they made a 4nm chip but they'll never build a chip factory around a large scale particle accelerator

  • Okay they built a large scale chip factory around a particle accelerator but...

[–] u_tamtam@programming.dev 1 points 9 months ago (45 children)

You obviously fall into the trap of believing that hard science cares about politics, and that money thrown at problems as part of national strategic planning magically solves them. But for anyone else legitimately interested in understanding the topic better and having a glimpse at its complexity, those are great resources:

If the above is too advanced, this can serve as a good primer and answers "how the heck did we get there": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt9NEnWmyMo

Also, I never wrote that China will never get to EUV (or eventually something beyond that), just that it will take a very long time, because the complexity is spread across several very distinct scientific disciplines, integrating them is a challenge of its own (again, watch the videos), and packaging this into a system that meets the scale and reliability requirements to make it commercially viable hasn't been reproduced to date.

[–] moujikman@hexbear.net 8 points 9 months ago (1 children)

China doesn't need to produce the fast chips because their comparative advantage is in quantity manufacturing.

[–] u_tamtam@programming.dev 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Sure thing, until you realize that China isn't that big at all as the 5th largest producer of semiconductors behind Taiwan, Korea, Japan and the USA:

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/semiconductor-manufacturing-by-country

[–] carl_marks_1312@hexbear.net 3 points 9 months ago

Top 5 Countries That Produce the Most Semiconductors: Taiwan South Korea Japan United States China

China is listed as the largest and 5th largest in your source

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