this post was submitted on 09 Nov 2023
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Discussion of climate, how it is changing, activism around that, the politics, and the energy systems change we need in order to stabilize things.

As a starting point, the burning of fossil fuels, and to a lesser extent deforestation and release of methane are responsible for the warming in recent decades: Graph of temperature as observed with significant warming, and simulated without added greenhouse gases and other anthropogentic changes, which shows no significant warming

How much each change to the atmosphere has warmed the world: IPCC AR6 Figure 2 - Thee bar charts: first chart: how much each gas has warmed the world.  About 1C of total warming.  Second chart:  about 1.5C of total warming from well-mixed greenhouse gases, offset by 0.4C of cooling from aerosols and negligible influence from changes to solar output, volcanoes, and internal variability.  Third chart: about 1.25C of warming from CO2, 0.5C from methane, and a bunch more in small quantities from other gases.  About 0.5C of cooling with large error bars from SO2.

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To be clear: carbon capture like this is a tiny and expensive part of what needs doing over the next few years

It's getting a lot of support and publicity in large part because it's backed by the oil industry, which is trying to create social permission for continued extraction and burning on a much larger scale than the removal.

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[–] Zron@lemmy.world 15 points 10 months ago (10 children)

Carbon capture is such a stupid concept.

We burn carbon to make electricity.

Then we take that electricity to power big fucking fans to pull the carbon we just burned out of the air. And use more electricity to cool down and pump that carbon into storage. If you wanted to capture just the CO2 we produce every year, you’d essentially double the cost of energy, because half the energy we make would have to go to storing the waste from harnessing that energy in the first place.

Carbon capture doesn’t do anything until we stop using fossil fuels at current levels. It’s like trying to drain a lake with a bucket while it’s raining.

[–] Firebirdie713@lemmy.blahaj.zone 14 points 10 months ago (2 children)

It may not do much right now, but it is important to start the work on it now, for a few reasons.

One, every little bit helps. We have doubled the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere since the start of the Industrial Revolution, and removing any of it is a good thing. Even if we stopped all carbon emissions today, we can't leave things the way they are, we would still need to remove that carbon from the air.

Two, these types of technologies need time and real-life demonstration to improve upon. If we wait to start working on carbon capture until we become carbon neutral, then we will not have carbon capture technology that will make a meaningful difference when we need it most.

I agree we need to eliminate the use of fossil fuels, and that there are a lot of people who want to use carbon capture as a complete alternative to switching to renewable energy. But we can't afford to wait, so we should support any company that is working towards improving our current situation.

[–] Eheran@lemmy.world 7 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Spending the time and effort to directly reduce CO2 emissions would be a more efficient use of all resources. At the very least, capture it directly at the source instead of diluted to hell.

[–] Firebirdie713@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

We have more than enough resources to do both, and small companies like this are the way we prove the concept to industries for future installations 'at the source'. Until you prove that it is a net positive, it can't be sold, and you can't improve on something if you've never actually seen the system function. We will need these systems to properly fix the climate crisis, and the sooner we start putting them to use, the faster we can improve them to the point of being able to make a difference.

Again, I am not saying we should be doing this instead of renewable energy, just that we need to be doing both at the same time. Plenty of other companies and groups are working on wind, solar, nuclear, hydro, and other forms of renewable energy. We do need more companies presenting more ideas of how to clean the existing mess, otherwise we risk people thinking that we shouldn't care about fixing the issue because 'the damage is done'. That sentiment is becoming a very popular talking point among people trying to discourage climate solutions, and having examples like this showing that recovery is possible helps drive people to support faster and better solutions.

[–] Eheran@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago

What do you mean... we have enough resources? We do not have spare energy to throw at this. We are far from a point in time where there is a regular excess in energy and where the low hanging fruits are taken care of.

We also do not have unlimited research capacities. Here too low hanging fruits are clearly more sensible to quickly reduce CO2 emissions.

The goal has to be the fastest possible reduction in CO2 emissions. This will not happen if we choose paths that are less efficient. Like hydrogen cars for example. Those or CCS are good for the fossil industry since they are ideal for greenwashing. This could even result in a net negative effect.

[–] Zron@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

You’re right, next time I see a house on fire I’ll be sure to head over with a glass of water to “help”

Eventually I might research the bucket and be able to help more

[–] Firebirdie713@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 10 months ago

Carbon capture is more like chest compressions done by someone who isn't a medical professional while you wait for an ambulance. It isn't a replacement, by a long shot, but you can both provide limited assistance now and ask for better assistance.

Also, not sure why you say 'eventually' when we are already implementing several solutions to eliminate fossil fuels across the globe. I agree we aren't doing enough, but to act like putting effort into carbon capture is useless is acting in bad faith, because the only argument you have is that you are letting perfect be the enemy of good.

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