this post was submitted on 23 Apr 2025
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I've been researching dumbphones lately and wanted to share about the developments I've learned. I'll be writing from an European perspective. I am omitting Android since I wasn't interested in it. Android Go is discontinued, if you care.

CloudFone

This is an addon to the barebones OS manufacturers add to their phones. Such OS' are e.g. HMD (formely Nokia) S30+ or other Mocor RTOS based systtems. This addon is an "app" within the OS that's a browser which offloads the rendering to another server. It works similar to the Puffin browser.

The advantage here is that the underlying browser engine is ran and updated on the server. This helps avoid the KaiOS situation: KaiOS v2 (the last version in Europe) uses Firefox 48 (current version is 137). CloudFone could be running the latest stable Chromium even on an old device, as long as the rendering server is updated to that version. The remote server rendering is obviously more powerful than what the little feature phone can normally do.

You can see how it works here: https://youtu.be/coaLnA7Twl4?t=295

The disadvantage here is that those apps do not work offline - you need to connect to the server over the Internet to render them. If the underyling rendering server is ever shut down, you lose all your apps and your phone is back to being a dumb-dumbphone. It seems like you don't have control over what apps are available and which are not. These could be rug-pulled at any moment. There are some rumors on /r/dumbphones about a WhatsApp CloudFone app which would be big. Some of the apps are something you wouldn't want on a dumbphone, like tiktok or yt shorts.

The trick is that the firmware versions with CloudFone enabled are only offered to phones in India. The only way to get these firmware versions is to download a custom firmware from the Russian 4pda.to forums. This custom firmware seems to be available for Nokia 3210 4G 2024 or Nokia 220 4G. A more powerful option would be HMD 110 4G 2024 since it has 128 MB RAM, but I couldn't find the CloudFone enabled firmware for it.

I get that this approach is not acceptable to the freedom-oriented, tech-savvy demographic on Lemmy, but it looks like this is where the mainstreaim is heading right now.

The downside of the non-KaiOS devices is that they normally don't support WiFi and thus can't serve as a mobile hotspot. There are devices like itel R60+ which can, however, but I have no idea which website to import it from.

KaiOS

The latest KaiOS version on devices sold in Europe is KaiOS v2.5.x. The latest available outside Europe is 3.1 (?). There's supposedly KaiOS v4 in the works. People say it's dead.

KaiOS is just not an European thing - this is balantly obvious if you look at HMD's "Barbie phone" - it uses KaiOS 3.1 in the US version, but in Europe, it uses the basic HMD S30+ OS.

There's a KaiOS jailbreaking community. See https://wiki.bananahackers.net/en/devices for supported devices. Apps you can install with the jailbreak are here: https://store.bananahackers.net/. I've seen an XMPP client and a Matrix one too.

I've been only considering devices with a USB-C port and available in Europe and what I've found is Gigaset GL7, myPhone UP smart LTE, Maxcom MK281. Note that some of those aren't jailbreakable according to the bananahackers table above. These devices aren't sold anymore so you'll have to go secondhand.

You could also import an US KaiOS v3 phone, but the overlap in LTE bands is only on band 7 (I think?), meaning it'd only have reception in cities. There's someone that imported an US Nokia 2780 and reports it works in Italy on /r/dumbphones.

KaiOS devices mostly can serve as a mobile hotspot, which is nice.

postmarketOS

Phones that run KaiOS out of the factory normally have 0.5 GB of RAM, meaning they can boot Linux. See https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Category:Feature_Phone The newest device in this table is the NA Nokia 2780 released in 2022. The feature support tables seems not to support calls.

SoCs

The "Feature phone SoCs" section seems to be gone from the Unisoc website. The Wikipedia SoC Unisoc table lists e.g. T107 but doesn't list the newer T127 or T157 (supports 5G and only ever used on Asian feature phones)

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[–] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The advantage here is that the underlying browser engine is ran and updated on the server. This helps avoid the KaiOS situation: KaiOS v2 (the last version in Europe) uses Firefox 48 (current version is 137).

there is no advantage there, only disadvantages. a dumb phone is not supposed to have internet features. but this is wholly running in the cloud? that's a horrible privacy nightmare, and it must also be very inefficient as it places a relatively large load on the network and the company has to run powerful servers that use unnecessarily large amounts power, more than normal dumb phones of the same quantity would

There are some rumors on /r/dumbphones about a WhatsApp CloudFone app which would be big.

yeah it would be so big if I bought a dumb phone because I'm fed up with tech and then I'm forced into facebook services in yet another "innovative" way. pretty sure they would even market it with "end to end encryption" and "security" even though the server sees everything

I get that this approach is not acceptable to the freedom-oriented, tech-savvy demographic on Lemmy, but it looks like this is where the mainstreaim is heading right now.

I really dont get why if so. why does anyone want tiktok and such on a dumbphone? then buy the cheapest smartphone from alibaba or your local telecom company. the entire purpose of dumbphones is to be able to call and SMS, keep a simplistic contact book and that's it

also, how does it even run a web browser when the whole device has just 128 MB RAM. will the device crash if I load up facebook. com?

[–] BenchpressMuyDebil@szmer.info 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

buy the cheapest smartphone from alibaba

These feature phones are aimed at people living in countries who don't have this privilege. If all I could afford is a 20 EUR phone I'd be pretty happy with having the cloud apps that I normally couldn't be able to use. I'm sure that the executives at HMD don't ask themselves "are we not violating the definition of the dumbphone?", they're trying to make their product attractive to sell the most units. And apparently the ability to watch YT or check cricket scores (the cloud apps), and in the future maybe WhatsApp, are just that.

Though yeah, my post is more about feature phones, not real dumbphones as I originally wrote in the title.

also, how does it even run a web browser when the whole device has just 128 MB RAM. will the device crash if I load up facebook. com?

The heavy lifting is offloaded to the servers ("cloud"), I think. The data you receive is how to draw the elements in the remote browser.

[–] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

And apparently the ability to watch YT

the ability to watch youtube on a 240x320 screen? at that level, video is heavily compressed. is any text in videos readable? is it possible to discern tools and screws? or is it just a low-level entertainment device effectively?

Though yeah, my post is more about feature phones, not real dumbphones as I originally wrote in the title.

I have to admit I did not recognize a difference between these two. I thought feature phones and dumb phones are the same category.

Here's a demo of the cloud youtube playing https://youtu.be/2VPQ_3SAKi0?t=85 It looks tolerably legible to me. Definitely OK for playing music or dunno, watching soccer recaps or tech videos

[–] totallyNotARedditor@lemm.ee 3 points 1 day ago

This is good info. Thanks!

[–] Yaky@slrpnk.net 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Not looking for a dumbphone at the moment, but

There’s a KaiOS jailbreaking community ... I’ve seen an XMPP client and a Matrix one too.

This is good and opens up a path for using other messengers via bridges.

Unfortunately there's this post too: https://blog.bananahackers.net/farooqkz/on-the-state-of-kaios-and-bananahackers-community-as-of-summer-of-2023

Many “council” members have lost interest in developing for KaiOS. Many have not and believe this OS will live on and cover a minority of the market

But now, in 2023, this mobile Operating System seems to be on the verge of death. Not only KaiOS 3.0 is out but also KaiOS 3.1 is also out. But there is no device which is available worldwide. Only few carrier-locked devices for North America.

[–] LesserAbe@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Can you share what your reasons are for considering a dumb phone?

For me I'm probably not actually going to get one, but have idly thought about it. If I were to get one it would be to free me from the attention sink of web browsing and apps. So I don't find it appealing to consider a dumb phone that still has web browsing but using some sort of work around.

[–] gramie@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I know someone who works in a university group related to privacy issues. He refuses to have a smartphone because of the ease which which almost anyone can track you and your activities. I think he has an old flip phone.

[–] LesserAbe@lemmy.world 1 points 23 hours ago

Yes, that's kind of what I was getting at - having this cloud browser thing would be significantly worse for privacy than even a smart phone.

[–] BenchpressMuyDebil@szmer.info 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I wanted something that's more difficult to consume media on. Something that is less conductive to feeding some guy's advertising empire. The cloud apps are interesting to me not because of YouTube, but because of maps and public transport schedules. That way, it'd be closer to my main-main phone, rather than falling back to the smartphone for some apps.

E-ink smartphones like Mudita Kompakt seem pretty interesting, as the e-ink probably makes certain media unusable.

Whatsapp is somewhat optional for me as my friends don't use it, but I know it's important to other people. It would be important to me if I went outside the EU, though.

There's also something about escaping Android.

[–] notgold@aussie.zone -3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Is Deepseeks turn to post today? Do many of these posts today

[–] BenchpressMuyDebil@szmer.info 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I wrote this by hand. It's a fact list because I don't want the research I've done to be lost. Does Deepseek find videos with links to a timestamp?