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Who is your hero from history? (lemmy.zip)

submitted 2 days ago by IceHouse@lemmy.zip to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml

67 comments fedilink hide all child comments

For me it has to be Malcom X, I'm not American, but I read his autobiography when I was young and it left a life long impression on me about justice and resiliency. He grew up in an extremely oppressive society, his dad was murdered and his mother was sent to the loony bin and he was clearly lost and traumatized. When he went to jail he was smart enough to be like what the hell, why am I here? Educating himself and channeling his energy into caring about others and justice transformed him into one of the most powerful and well respected leaders of his time.

He is often denigrated by Americans as violent and contrasted with King Jr. but by all accounts whenever he was in a position to project violence he chose de-escalation like during the Harlem riots and saved lives as there were people in the US in positions of military power who would have loved an excuse to do to them what they did to the indigenous across the entire country.

He was angry but principled and really set a template for me about how to be a leader and help me process my own anger and channel it into something more positive.

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[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 3 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Again, I am aware of the events, you don't need to repeat them, link a basic Wikipedia article, or quote said article as though that will change anything I have said.

Immediately a Provisional Revolutionary Committee (PRC) was elected, formed by the five members of the collegiate presidency of the assembly, to manage the island until the election of a new local soviet. The committee enlarged to 15 members two days later.

Notably, these were made up of fascists, Kadets, and Anarchists, all anti-bolshevik millitant forces in the middle of a Civil War.

Again, this is devoid of context, or analysis. We see a hostile, fascist-led revolt, and a subsequent response from the Communists. What is your point? You have none, you rely on endless "gotchas."

[+] index@sh.itjust.works -2 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

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[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 3 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago) (1 children)

This is your rendition of the events and you have the guts to call out others for no context or analysis

Stepan Petrichenko, the leader of the rebellion, tried to join the White Army before the Kronstadt Rebellion, and joined the White Army after it failed, under general Wrangel. The White Army was a fascist, anti-communist group. We also know that Petrichenko attempted to instill paranoia among the sailors by lying about Bolsheviks executing strike leaders, and allied with Mensheviks, Kadets, ex-Capitalists, and black market speculators that together formed the Provisional Revolutionary Committee with several Anarchists. What else could this be but a fascist-led counter-revolution?

Ignoring the will of the leaders and manipulators of the rebellion, lets look at who this supported. Capitalist media positively reported on the rebellion before it even came to a head, the Bourgeoisie supported the movement as it weakened the Communist movement, causing division.

Ignoring who wanted it to succeed, was what the rebels wanted feasible at this point in time? Absolutely not. The rebels wanted to dissolve the bolshevik influence over the revolution, fracturing it during a bloody Civil War. This would have doomed the revolution, it could not come to pass and not result in Capitalist victory over Socialism.

Was it possible for there to be a bloodless resolution? Perhaps, but it didn't. The Bolsheviks did not have the strength to hold courts and answer said rebellion peacefully, nor could they grant the demands of the rebels. Ultimately, the rebels surrendered and turned on the PRC, ending the conflict and counter-revolution.

What would you rather have happened? The fascists get what they wanted? The Capitalists get what they wanted? No. Kronstadt is used as a "gotcha" against Communists all the time, of course I have investigated it.

Is your point that Communists are just violent and evil individuals? Or that Lenin's indirect involvement means he isn't worthy of recognition of his role in Marxist theory and as the architect of the first Socialist State? It's a pointless gotcha that lacks meaningful analysis, you wish you could wave a magic wand and have everyone happy. I do too, but I don't believe it's possible, so I analyze from a materialist lens.

[+] index@sh.itjust.works -1 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

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[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 3 points 9 hours ago

I never once said the Whites were behind the rebellion. I said the rebellion was supported by the West and the Whites, as in they agreed with it vocally, and the main leader tried to join the Whites beforehand and successfully joined afterwards.

Can you provide source for Stepan Petrichenko joining the white army before the Kronstadt Rebellion?

Kronstadt: the 1921 Uprising of Sailors in the Context of the Political Development of the New Soviet State

According to your own logic if they turned fascist we could argue that the whole repression was fascist-led. Considering this happened before fascist even rose to power in italy the term you are throwing around has a lose meaning. The activities fascists were involved in during these years in italy resemble to me these of the Bolsheviks repressive methods quoted in the conversation.

Petrichenko tried to join the Whites before. You don't just try to join the fascists then change your mind then change it again.

Secondly, fascism isn't an "idea," it's Capitalism in decline, a violent defense of bourgeois interests. The Whites were fascists, even if the term hadn't been coined.

Thirdly, the bolsheviks were the leaders of the Communist revolution, counter-revolutionary forces like the Whites, the Kronstadt rebels, the Black Guards, all were fighting against the Communist revolution towards bourgeois interests. Equating Communists with fascists is ahistorical, read Blackshirts and Reds.

I believe the hero status is something reserved to people who did great or good with no injustice. I'm not arguing communism or marxist theory.

Then Lenin either qualifies as a hero, or nobody does, and you should be arguing against everyone in this comment section. You clearly have an anticommunist agenda here, you specifically singled out Lenin as someone you oppose by carrying water for fascists.