this post was submitted on 25 Apr 2024
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Let's play a fun game:
Which of the following 2 screenshots is TikTok's permissions?
Is it the one that can prevent the phone from sleeping and runs at startup? The one that sends sticky broadcasts?
Or is it the one that accesses the AdId Api?
I'll give you a hint: I already told you which one it is.
It’s the second. But the Apple App Store alerts you to it reading up browsing history, your physical address, “other user contact info” besides name, phone, email, and physical address, whatever that could mean, as well as your “other financial info” besides your payment to them, “other diagnostic data” besides crash, performance data, and app use…
Maybe this is just a matter of opinion but those few things alone are way too much. But hey, you do you.
Are you talking about the App Privacy page specifically?
Because that page is about as useful as "known to the State of California to cause cancer"
Any social media with advertising will have similar alerts as to what it might be collecting.
How would it be collecting that you might ask?
It's not on your phone: Your browser and your apps are sandboxed from each other. They cannot read from each other. It's a constant pain in the ass for session persistence, you end up having to use wonky nonce patterns to maintain sessions from app to browser & vice versa.
They're collecting it from advertising ids that are on your browser. It's the Google Ad Api - That's it.
Go ahead, look at Instagram or Youtube. They'll have the same laundry list of "Browsing history, Physical Address" etc.
TikTok isn't conjuring that from thin air - It's just that it, like any other advertising app, is using the publicly available data about you to advertise.
Again a side by side:
Which one is TikTok and which one is Instagram?
TikTok isn't doing anything that the other apps aren't also doing - The other apps are just fucking awful at knowing what you want to see.
I really wish I could post those pictures. I opened the “learn more” page on the App Store. It does list some of the same info under a few different headers, but I take that to mean it’s more detailed info to apply to their multiple tracking desires.
https://www.thequill.ca/features/2023/2/17/five-reasons-why-tiktok-is-a-privacy-nightmare
I’m not a social media person, so I was never going to use the app anyway, but I’m also pretty strict about what apps I’ll download. It’s probably a security blanket, but I try to do what I can. I’ve changed my mind about downloading a couple of apps that required way fewer permissions. So maybe my opinion is different than others’.
My point here is less that TikTok is totally cool with privacy (they're not)
It's that tiktok is just as invasive as all other mainstream social media but they provide a better service than any other social media.
That's it: They do more with the exact same.
You can drop instagram straight into that sentence and it reads the same. Except Facebook tracks you even when you don't have an account.
I see. Maybe that’s true. I don’t think we even know the true extent of their snooping. Any of them. It’s probably much more extensive and creepy than any of us could ever know.
Although, I do think them providing “better” service is subjective. It’s basically vine, right? Vine had an “explore” page, right? I would definitely agree they provide a more stimulating service than any other social media company.
But if you asked them their mission statement, their answer would be “providing customers with a great experience.” Though, if you could actually get the non-PR answer, their goal is to maximize engagement with an app people have a hard time turning off, while maximizing profits by dominating the data broker market.
Would you say they’re providing customers a better experience? Or that they’re the most effective social media company? I’d argue that probably every new iteration of social media, and every year they exist, they get more invasive. They’re finding new ways to streamline their profit centers. And they’re…free apps. So….
That’s all I’m saying. I don’t know for certain who’s more invasive, but I will say it’s a race to the bottom and we’ll never know who actually won until there’s a whistle blower. That’s…not a good sign. I’m sure we can agree on that much.
Sure, better is always subjective
But there's a reason it's way more popular for short form video than anyone else despite coming after them.
Sorta. It's short form video but vine was locked to 7 seconds. TT is anything up to 3 minutes.
But beyond vine: the "for you page" of Tiktok is an algorithmic beast unlike anything else. It is miles better at training to your likes than anyone else manages.
It seems like their main money plan besides ads is shopping. That's been their major push for a year or so now.
With social media companies and ad tech in general it's safe to assume that they're all merciless and cutthroat. They will do anything to profile you better, short of the existentially illegal shit (IE the company would cease to exist if they were caught. Think breaking into your house).
That's why it's always hilarious when people tout whatsapp being e2e encrypted
And maybe this is me being a pessimist and something of a Luddite lite, but I take that to mean the data they’re extracting from users is way more invasive than other companies.
They’re not hand selecting things they think you’d like, like you said, it’s an incredibly advanced algorithm that is scientifically creating the most effective content service they can.
And yeah, def agree people who trust WhatsApp are dumb af. I don’t trust meta any more than I trust the people who own TikTok’s algorithm.
I think we’re basically saying the same thing, but just looking at it differently. I take what you’re saying to mean they’re more invasive. You are more or less saying they’re as invasive as any other SM company, and they’re all pretty much neck and neck.
I’d agree in some senses, but think TikTok has mastered that profiling to the heights anyone could even imagine. And I also think, with ties to the Chinese govt—a ruthlessly authoritarian state—that it doesn’t bode well for user privacy, probably going beyond that threshold you mentioned. I would say the exact same thing if Facebook were owned by the US govt and was operating in China, Russia, etc.
Yeah seems like we're just of different opinions there.
I firmly believe that American companies have excruciating detail on every single user, as well as most non-users. That's how they can do things like predict pregnancy before the rest of the family has been told...
And that was Target more than a decade ago.
It's worth noting that ByteDance has a board that is 3/5ths American. The company has a communist committee like all Chinese megacorps.
China has blocked Youtube because it contained content around Free Tibet & Tienanmen Square. American Congress has decided to ban Tiktok because it might have content that China wants people to see (maybe). There is no credible reason why besides "No totally, trust me it's a problem".
Right. I mean, I’m no fan of china. I’m no fan of the US govt either. But I would say that China banning YT because it told the true story of Chinese oppression and the US trying to ban TikTok because it might be used to sway American opinion are starkly different…I mean, there have been coordinated disinformation campaigns in recent years. It’s not completely crazy to imagine china would use this incredibly powerful tool to spread their influence. Their track record isn’t amazing.
Also, yeah, most definitely, the data broker situation is waaaayyy the fuck out of control. It’s terrifying. Us companies are absolutely not innocent. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that US companies were the first to really “create” this new market. I haven’t looked that up though.