this post was submitted on 08 Nov 2024
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42
Pluralistic: Antiusurpation and the road to disenshittification (07 Nov 2024) (pluralistic.net)
submitted 1 month ago by alyaza@beehaw.org to c/technology@beehaw.org
10 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

The difference between a helpmeet and a parasite is power. If we want to enjoy the benefits of intermediaries without the risks, we need policies that keep middlemen weak. That's the opposite of the system we have now.

Take interoperability and IP law. Interoperability (basically, plugging new things into existing things) is a really powerful check against powerful middlemen. If you rely on an ad-exchange to fund your newsgathering and they start ripping you off, then an interoperable system that lets you use a different exchange will not only end the rip off – it'll make it less likely to happen in the first place because the ad-tech platform will be afraid of losing your business

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[–] ErsatzCoalButter@beehaw.org 3 points 1 month ago (4 children)

Doctorow can write a great detective novel but he lives in absolute La La land. I'm glad he's open about the fact he's just distracting himself with this post, but the idea that these webs of laws or these models of "how things should work" mean anything tho the people with power are complete nonsense.

He has some understanding of that, I think? But like, buddy, your country just went full Nazi. You've been living in a total fantasy. You're not going to rethink the concept of fixers, get a grip.

[–] displaced_city_mouse@midwest.social 10 points 1 month ago (1 children)

the idea that these webs of laws or these models of “how things should work” mean anything tho the people with power are complete nonsense.

Kinda ironic that you are discussing the nonsense of "how things should work" on a federated service where you control the intermediaries you work with and through, which is, IMO, the way things should work.

[–] ErsatzCoalButter@beehaw.org 3 points 1 month ago

Heyyyy you're right

[–] adespoton@lemmy.ca 8 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

The problem is, once the middlemen gain power, they’re never gonna give you up. Music producers are a great example of this, as are telecoms companies.

All the current SaaS stuff is similar; the offerings LOOK similar, but they’re explicitly designed not to be a 1:1 match, so you can’t just take your business elsewhere, just like the mattress companies of old.

We’re even seeing this play out in the streaming video market, where each player has its own differentiator, moreso than we ever saw with traditional cable TV.

Standards are great, but middlemen have no incentives to not subvert them.

[–] ErsatzCoalButter@beehaw.org 3 points 1 month ago

You know I think he actually uses the music producer example in his 2nd novel (The Bezzle).

[–] drspod@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Did you think this blog post was aimed at the people with power, to petition them to change the laws?

It's aimed at us, the people getting fucked over, to point out what (among the many other things) we should be fighting for. Commentary like this is important to align the goals of the organizations, charities and lobby groups that defend YOUR civil rights by filing amicus briefs, publishing articles, encouraging activism and drives to get citizens to write to their representatives on the important matters that affect their rights. You don't even have to do anything and there are thousands of people out there trying to protect you from getting more fucked by Big Tech and capitalism, on a volunteer basis.

It sounds to me like you've just given up hope that any progress can be made on this front, given the new status quo.

Never give up. Just because civil rights defenders will be on the defensive for a few years does not mean that discussions of what is worth defending no longer have value.

[–] ErsatzCoalButter@beehaw.org 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I can see why you might read my post that way because what other context do you have. I don't belong to the "us" group you mentioned. I spent 2015-2022ish doing direct service activism and it cost me a great deal. Part of the reason I sound disillusioned is because the fascists directly attacked and destroyed much of my work as I was performing it (especially in 2018 2019 when they were a little better organized). I did literacy and library access work for the incarcerated, primarily. My work was primarily volunteer so it seriously hurt my family's economy, in addition to being undone in real time as paper bans and mail bans were put in place. People at the universities I "worked" for would provide verbal support, but that was all it ever amounted to.

Part of the reason I like Doctorow is because he gave a pretty accurate description of how literacy access within the prison system works in The Bezzle except for the part where he was using it to distribute LSD. That sounds cool but its largely based on a myth made up to protect prison employees who trade drugs inside.

You don’t even have to do anything and there are thousands of people out there trying to protect you from getting more fucked[...]

Don't go around telling them they don't have to "do anything" plz 😅

Not trying to call you out otherwise, how are you supposed to know

[–] drspod@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

You don’t even have to do anything and there are thousands of people out there trying to protect you from getting more fucked[…]

Don’t go around telling them they don’t have to “do anything” plz 😅

You removed the emphasis on "You" from my quote which changes the meaning. I specifically meant that you, the person that I am replying to, don't need to do anything, and there are people who will do something on your behalf.

Nothing that you've said changes my critique of your critique btw. You said:

he lives in absolute La La land

No, actually he presented a well thought out analysis of the way that the relationship between business and customer/user in our current system, along with the relationship between business and legislator, both entrenches monopolies and causes a pathological dependency whereby customers cannot exercise their right to freely choose with whom they do business, and so their rights are severely diminished.

the idea that these webs of laws or these models of “how things should work” mean anything tho the people with power are complete nonsense.

The main point of my reply was that you are arguing against a straw-man here since the intended audience of the article is not "the people with power."

like, buddy, your country just went full Nazi. You’ve been living in a total fantasy. You’re not going to rethink the concept of fixers, get a grip.

A non-sequitur and then a baseless dismissal of the argument that suggests that you either didn't read it, or didn't understand it.

[–] ErsatzCoalButter@beehaw.org 2 points 1 month ago

Oh okay I think we just disagree then.

[–] Kichae@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 month ago

Heaven forbid someone point out the reasons things suck and the ways we could do thibgs different, even if you know no one's going to change.

Better to just shrug everything off and tell folks "that's life, get used to it", right? That does a lot of good!